Sulanthung Lotha
Ex-MLA & Former Naga Hoho President
From Nehru Archives
The Prime Minister saw the six liberal Naga leaders[2] on 15 – 9‑1956 and talked and listened to them for about two hours. Following is the verbatim record of the talks:
Jawaharlal Nehru: I am glad you have come here. I got your wire in which you referred to my speech in Parliament.[3] You seem to have got mixed up with what I said and what Rishang Keishing said.[4] My speech was a long speech. The basic things I said were carefully considered and our policy was carefully stated in that speech. I would suggest you read it.
Jasokie: We have read that speech now. But we were misled by the headlines given in the newspapers.
JN: It is a little over nine years since India became independent. During this period we have faced many problems. We have drawn up our Constitution and solved many problems. We are hard at work to improve the living conditions of our people. Have you read our Constitution?
Jasokie: Yes.
JN: The whole or only the Sixth Schedule?
Jasokie: Mainly the Sixth Schedule which we were interested in.
JN: You should read the other main provisions of the Constitution also. We gave a lot of thought to it, but we had so many problems facing us at that time. We had to look after millions of refugees from Pakistan. Speaking for myself, I could not then give much thought to the Hill areas of North East India, although I was very much interested in them. Broadly speaking, I wanted them to have as much autonomy as possible and share with us the freedom of India, that is, freedom for all the people.
We drew up a complicated Constitution protecting the rights of everybody through the Judiciary, Parliament and other safeguards. We thought the Sixth Schedule was a step which should be worked out and then changed, if necessary. I did not give much time to it then. The Sixth Schedule applied to various areas, but the Naga National Council did not cooperate in working it. We have, therefore, had no chance to get it going or take further steps.
We met some Naga representatives during this period. I met Phizo twice or thrice and some others too. Everytime Phizo met me he talked about independence. I told him I was not prepared to discuss it as I considered it an absurd claim. The result was that we never discussed the other problems either. It is quite possible if other matters had been discussed many problems could have been solved in a friendly and cooperative way. The situation grew worse and Phizo gave a lot of trouble. I came to the conclusion that Phizo should not be relied upon and he was out only for mischief. I said then I was prepared to meet Naga representatives but I would not meet Phizo, unless he gave up violence and the claim for independence. Then the trouble started and we were faced with this situation.
Before I say more, I should like you to tell me what your feelings are. I will say this that the violent step Phizo and others took was a foolish step and a step which no country could tolerate. India is a big country, a proud country. Our pride is that we live up to certain principles. If you have travelled in India you must have noticed a great variety of our customs, religions, languages, etc. We maintain all this variety, but, nevertheless, we all have a national unity which is based on this variety which our Constitution tells us to maintain. We have to maintain the unity and integrity of the country. It is necessary at all times and more especially now when we are anxious to advance and preserve our freedom which we have won by our struggle against the British.
During these nine years we have made considerable progress and also gained prestige in the world. Therefore, for us to go in for fighting and use our Army is against our past record and present policy. It is distasteful to us. But, if violence is used against the State, we cannot help using force to suppress violence.
Our outlook is to give people local freedom and to build up the whole country.
The world today is a very complicated world. Now we have the Suez Canal trouble, for instance. In this state of the world, the first question for the country is to keep its unity and integrity. Because that unity and integrity was challenged in the Naga areas, we had to use force. Until peace and order are adequately established there, we have to use force.
I said in my speech in Parliament that we are anxious to win over our Naga people. Not only is Naga territory theirs, but the whole of India is theirs. It is their duty to build up their local area and the whole of India, preserve their customs, language, etc., within the integrity and unity of India. Besides, it is a frontier area and we have to be particularly careful about it.
Jasokie: The loyal leaders are very much agitated that Government will meet Phizo. We are directly concerned with the Naga people and we want to know the Government’s stand. Apart from this, we want a political platform to convince our people and we want to know the Government’s policy in that regard.
JN: I will be very brief. We intend to be firm with the hostiles until peace is restored.
Satsuo Angami: We are only six Nagas here, but we represent a large body of Nagas. Those who have resorted deliberately to violence are few, hardly two and a half per cent. We have been deputed by the Naga people to represent their wishes. The villagers are facing trouble on both sides; the hostiles threaten them if they do not give food and shelter to them and the Army, not knowing who are friendly and who are hostiles, sometimes kills innocent people. Therefore, to save innocent people, we have arranged to send some youths to go with the Army and tell them who are innocent villagers. We want to end this trouble as soon as possible. We have, therefore, to tell you certain things and ask for your advice and suggestions. The question of independence is not there, but some political status for a settlement is necessary. Those who are cooperating with the Government and the liberal group of Nagas had their differences with Phizo, even before the start of the struggle. Phizo’s group said they would not budge an inch from independence. We said independence would not lead to anywhere. But we want to know definitely from you what we can offer to the people when we go back. Without a promise from you and a political platform it is very difficult for us to convince the people and restore peace. Phizo’s political platform is that of independence under which he is promising the people all kinds of things possible on earth. We need a good political platform to convince and win over the masses of the people. We asked the Foreign Secretary if all the Naga areas can be put in one administrative unit within the Union of India and within the framework of the Constitution.
TN Angami[6]: Some of our misguided people are killing our own innocent Nagas, yet we feel for them. Therefore, we would ask you to grant amnesty to those who surrender their arms and ammunition. If this amnesty is granted, we believe many armed Nagas will surrender. In the case of those who have committed heinous crimes, the law will take its course.
JN: An amnesty has been declared.[7] What more do you want? We can deal with heinous crimes in accordance with the Naga customary law, depending on the merits of each case. We do not want reprisals or punishment for punishment’s sake, but serious crimes have to be dealt with and the offenders punished. You have your own methods of punishment. We have declared an amnesty for those who surrender arms and we should like to use people’s cooperation in dealing with them.
You mentioned that some of you have started going with our Army to guide them. When did this start?
Jasokie: Two months ago.
JN: We started it because we felt that the situation should be dealt with in cooperation with our Naga friends. A new General, General Thimayya, has taken overall charge of this area. We have sent him there not because he is a great General, but because he is good in seeking the cooperation of the people. There must be mutual trust. Your views may be different from mine, but we must be frank with each other and trust each other.
I was very much distressed and unhappy at some of the incidents that occurred at the hands of our Army. The saddest incident was the death of Dr Haralu and we are trying our best to punish the guilty.
I want to change the whole approach to this problem. We have to deal with the hostiles firmly - they are hostile not only to Government but also hostile to the Naga people. We, therefore, want the trust and cooperation of the people and act in consultation with them. This takes time and trust does not grow suddenly. General Thimayya has been given these instructions and understands things. Therefore, our policy is:
(1) to deal firmly with those who continue their hostilities; and
(2) to cooperate with those who are not hostile and to seek their help and advice.
Difficulties will arise in following this policy; but the main thing is that there should be frequent consultations between our authorities and our Naga friends so that misunderstandings can be removed. The final authority will be that of our General and we expect him to carry out our policy successfully.
You mentioned that independence appeals to the people and you also mentioned a separate state. The cry of independence has, instead of bringing peace or comfort to the people, only brought them distress and trouble. A mere slogan or a cry does not mean anything. Therefore, you must remember that what you are after is not merely a slogan but the giving of a feeling and sensation to the people that they can live their lives as they want to live them and not to change their customs, unless they want to change them, to develop hospitals, schools, roads, etc., about which there can be no difference. Do you have any Community Projects or National Extension Service blocks in the Naga Hills District?
Jasokie: We have five National Extension Service blocks but no Community Project. They almost cover the whole District. They began in 1954 but Phizo’s propaganda came in the way. Since hostilities have started, they are not working.
JN: These Community Projects are meant to build up rural areas like yours, to develop their own leadership and their community cooperation. We do not mean to crowd your areas with outside officers; they are there only to train the local people. At the end of the Second Five Year Plan period, we shall cover the whole of rural India with these Projects. At the bottom we have a village worker, then the doctors, engineers and others. The whole idea is to train the people of the area. This is the real great work we are doing in India today - to build up the people to produce their own leaders and not to thrust outsiders on them.
We have inherited the administrative system from British days - it has some good points and some bad points. We are making it more democratic so that the people themselves could control their own affairs, through Parliament, through Community Projects and the like. The Community Project is the biggest programme in the world today. We have about 25,000 village workers at present and are training 10,000 more every year.
Why I am saying all this is because sometimes people try to capture people’s imagination by mere slogans, but that is not enough. I can understand the Naga people not wanting officers from outside. I myself spent 10 years in British jails and although I am Prime Minister today I can well understand the dislike of the people to be administered by officers. But what did we do when we became independent? We did not dismiss all the officers because we would have no trained people left then. There were many good people among them and some bad also. Many of them have done and are doing very good work. Even some who did badly during British times are doing good work with us now. You cannot disrupt all these things suddenly; so one has to accept things and then change them. If one upsets things suddenly, it may please some, but that would be childish. All great countries need trained people to do the work and public meetings alone cannot solve problems.
Therefore, in the whole of India, we are changing the people from inside and we are trying to remove the differences between the officers and the people which existed in British times. We have to work hard and it takes time - it may take 20 or 25 years to develop our country fully. All these five year plans are meant to build up not only industries but the people - the people come first. The kind of people we lack most today are engineers. We cannot afford to waste trained people. Therefore, we accepted a system which was built by the British even though we did not like it. We accepted even some British officers, but we are changing the system. My stand is that we have to build up the Naga areas. The only people who can build them up are the Nagas themselves. We can only send you experts, but we want to train Naga engineers, Naga doctors, etc. They must build themselves up not only for the Naga areas, but for the whole of India. I want you to understand and know how our minds work; as we have to work together. We must understand each other. We can then help each other.
I cannot change India by law or a decree. I am not a dictator. It takes time. For instance, there is still unemployment in India. I think we can get rid of it only by careful schemes and not by law. Even among independent countries there has to be a lot of cooperation. These independent countries, like Nepal, Burma, Malaya and some African countries, are constantly asking for all kinds of help from us. We ourselves have taken the help from Germany, Russia and UK in the three big steel plants that we are building.[8] The next plants will be built by Indians. We want the people of each area to take charge of the area and develop it. Officers from outside are there only to help and not to rule and govern; but one cannot remain cut off from the world. For instance, the countries which were most cut off from the world, like Tibet, are now moving fast. It used to take four weeks to reach Lhasa from India and now it takes only two hours by air. The world is becoming small and we cannot remain isolated. Quite apart from my wishes and your wishes, you cannot simply consider the Naga territory as apart from the rest of India or the world. But what is necessary is to realize that it has its own special ways and customs — in some ways it is more advanced and in some other ways it is more backward than the rest of India. Therefore, a certain helpful protection from outside exploitation is necessary; but one cannot entirely remain away from the rest of the world, and isolated existence is not politically or economically possible today. We want you in the Naga areas to train the people to govern themselves. We want you also to work in the rest of India and to have a knowledge of world affairs. One must have this larger picture of autonomy.
You have talked about a Naga state and you said that it has nothing to do with independence. I want to point out to you two things:
(i) Our states have to fulfil some qualifications. They must be large enough in resources, trained personnel, etc. We cannot make any small area into a state which does not fulfil those qualifications;
(ii) this applies particularly to frontier areas. We have to take special care of them, even though we are friendly with our neighbours China and Burma.
We do not consider it right or desirable to make any announcement about the future. This cannot be made while the trouble created by Phizo and others continues. When there is peace and order, we can consider these matters.
One promise I can always make, because that is in accordance with our policy. We want all parts of India to develop fully and to rely upon themselves and not have interference from outside. This applies to the Naga area also. The present set-up in the Naga Hills can be considered when the trouble is over and not before. We are prepared to evolve a new set-up which may be considered more suitable. This will have to be done by our Parliament, but we wish to consult the Naga people fully about it when the time comes.
You feel that it will be easier for you to deal with your people if you give them something solid. I am convinced it is not safe or right to do this at the present time. It may appear as a surrender as long as trouble continues, but as soon as the trouble is over, it will be a cooperative attempt to solve the problem in the direction that the Naga people should shoulder the responsibility not only to run the Naga area but also the other areas. It involves constitutional changes. I am not a king or an emperor and cannot issue a decree. I have to go to Parliament and convince them. I think I can convince them but only at the right time and in the right way.
Our objective is to develop the area and train the people to govern themselves. The Community Projects are the basis for self-government of areas, especially areas like yours. You have to build self-government from below and that should go on. But apart from this, when the time comes for you and us to consider what proper steps to take, I do not propose to take any steps without consulting the Naga people. I am not frightened by Phizo and company and I do not propose to deal with them.
Jasokie: What do you advise we should tell the people? They want to get independence. We have to remould the people to other ideas. We cannot offer them autonomy within Assam. They will not accept it. At the same time, we do not want to exploit hostile activity to secure a settlement.
JN: The first thing they should understand is:- (1) the method of violence and fighting will bring misery and trouble and not independence; (2) this talk of Naga independence has no relationship to modern world. I say Nagas are independent today because they are part of independent India, as India is a sovereign democratic State. I can understand you when you say that you have not had the opportunity of taking active and full part in the activities of independent India. Therefore, you should try to explain to your people that this talk of independence has landed them in trouble. You are independent, as independent as others in India and have the same individual freedom. But this is within the Union of India.
You mentioned your feelings against association with Assam. I do not rule out any proposal you may wish to make for our consideration. Only two considerations are supreme:
(1) national security; and (2) national unity.
Subject to these two supreme considerations, I want the Nagas to have the fullest freedom, the exact pattern of which we can discuss and settle later.
Jasokie: The Nagas want a straight answer “yes” or “No”. Lengthy explanations make them suspicious.
JN: If the question is “Independence”, the answer is “No”. For instance, here, at our doorstep is Delhi State. It is an advanced State, but we have to deprive it of its statehood; statehood is not necessary for freedom. But I realize you have to counteract a lot of slogans thrown out by Phizo. You want self-government for the Naga areas within the Union of India. I agree with you, but we have to consider it when the proper time comes.
Khieya: We have some followers and supporters. We do not want to fool them any more. We want to give them a straight answer. We have told them that independence is out of the question but we want a political status and the first thing we want is unification of the Naga areas. The second thing we want is a separate state completely cut off from Assam. We must be sincere and frank with our people; otherwise 50 to 75 per cent of Nagas may perish because they are not acquainted with military operations.
JN: What is your definition of “Nagas” — Angamis, Aos or Semas? How has the term “Naga” come to cover them all?
Jasokie: Naga is a Sema word, meaning ‘Village people’.
JN: I thought the British had coined this word. Now you have different languages. There are some Nagas in Burma. Then there are Nagas in Manipur, which has been a separate state for hundreds of years. You cannot bring all these Nagas in one state and upset states that have existed for centuries. Then you talked about Assam- that you do not like to be associated with Assam. Am I right?
Jasokie: We want to be treated on an equal basis with Assam and not as a District of Assam.
JN: Many states in Central India are being joined in one larger state and in Western India also the same thing is happening, but nobody there thinks his status has become less by joining a bigger state.
Silie Haralu: What we want is that the Tuensang Frontier Division and the Naga Hills District should be one administrative area for the time being and we can give it any name - a state or anything else - after peace has been restored.
JN: At present Tuensang Frontier Division is in NEFA. which is directly under the Centre. The Naga Hills District is an autonomous district under the Assam State administration. Our tendency is to abolish smaller states. You are suggesting something which goes against our policy. You want to create smaller states. I can understand that the Naga Hills and Tuensang Frontier Division are similar areas and should be dealt with under one administration.
Jasokie: Yes, but under a separate administration.
JN: We can consider that when the time comes.
Jasokie: We have understood your point, but we want you to understand ours. For a political platform we want a Naga state when peace is restored. You said if it is given now it will be a sign of weakness. I want to ask you “Can this be considered when peace is restored?”
JN: I am not ruling out anything when peace is restored. We will consult the Naga people and consider everything that is put up. We want the Naga people to run their own show.
TN Angami: We understand, but we feel pained because we will find it difficult to explain to our people who have suffered and who are still suffering.
JN: I understand. I am as anxious as you are to stop this suffering. I want to win the goodwill of the Nagas, but I do not want to bribe them. They are a proud people and I am proud also.
T.N. Angami: If the situation is prolonged for a few months more, it will wipe out the Nagas.
JN: I have told you that we want to give Nagas full measure of autonomy in consultation with them, but I cannot give you any definite promise about a political future. I could give you a state which will be the shadow of a state but lacking the substance of a state. But I do not want to do this. I want to come to Shillong and, if possible, to Kohima in the next month or two and I hope I shall meet you then.[9] I am glad you came here and am glad to have met you.
Footnotes
SOURCE: SELECTED WORKS OF JAWAHARLAL NEHRU, SECOND SERIES, VOL. 35, pp. 142-152
New Delhi, 15 September 1956. JN Collection
The delegation, led by John Bosco Jasokie, included T.N. Angami, Silie Haralu, Virulie Angami, K. Khieya and Satsuo Angami. They belonged to the Naga National Council Reforming Committee, which did not subscribe to the demand of A.Z. Phizo for an independent Naga state.
For Nehru’s speech in Lok Sabha on 23 August 1956 see Selected Works (second series), Vol. 34, pp. 160-172.
Participating in the discussion, Rishang Keishing, Lok Sabha member from outer Manipur, said that the Government dealt with the Naga problem from a position of strength and the Naga attempts to have discussions with the Government failed because the latter had always put some conditions before the meeting. This led to violence followed by military operations in which the Army behaved ruthlessly with Naga hostiles but at the same time could not give protection to peaceful Nagas. Lastly, Keishing suggested that to solve the problem: (a) the Government should declare general amnesty and have talks with NNC representatives and others, (b) a separate administrative unit with Naga Hills, Tuensang division and Tirap Frontier region should be formed, and (c) a parliamentary delegation should visit the disturbed areas to restore goodwill and confidence.
See (second series), Vol. 33, p. 176.
Thepfulo Nakhro Angami (b. 1913); served in Indian Army overseas during Second World War; in Indian Civil Service, 1946-50; active in the political life of Nagaland since 1950; member of the Naga National Council but broke away from it in 1955 on the question of violence; helped in the formation of Naga People’s Convention and member in its Select Committee since 1957; Chairman, Interim Body, Nagaland, 1961 -63; Speaker, Legislative Assembly, Nagaland, 1964 66; Chief Minister, Nagaland, 1966-69; Minister of Public Works and Electricity, Nagaland, 1969-72.
Raj Kumar Kochhar, who was appointed General Officer Commanding, Assam, in April 1956, issued a declaration in May 1956 assuring full protection to those who surrendered their arms, unless they were involved in murder or heinous crimes. See also Selected Works (second series), Vol. 33, pp. 185, 187 and 189.
It was decided to set up three integrated iron and steel plants in the public sector with an initial capacity of 10 lakh tons each at Rourkela in Orissa, Bhilai in Madhya Pradesh and Durgapur in West Bengal during the Second Plan period with the help of West Germany, the USSR and the UK, respectively.
Nehru was in Assam from 17 to 20 October 1956.
These are the Naga leaders who helped shape the political future of the Naga people and left a legacy for generations to come.
On 15 September 1956, six Naga leaders met Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru to discuss peace, political status, self-government, and the future of the Naga Hills. At a time of conflict and uncertainty, they advocated a political settlement and sought a future in which the Naga people could preserve their identity, customs, and traditions while determining how their homeland would be governed.
Their discussions became part of the historical journey that eventually led to the formation of Nagaland.
Remembering the past is not merely about honouring those who came before us; it is about understanding the struggles, decisions, and sacrifices that shaped the future of the Naga people.
Their story is part of our history.
Their legacy belongs to future generation.
